MyDD :: Hillary Clinton Will Not Disrupt the Convention [UPDATED]

Hillary Clinton Will Not Disrupt the Convention [UPDATED]

by Maryscott OConnor, Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:15:23 PM EST

Crossposted from MY LEFT WING

Okay, I just caught up on all the "Hilary's going to try to get to get nominated!" nonsense news, and here's my take: It's bullshit.

She's not a fucking idiot. I saw the so-called "smoking gun" undercover video, and the only thing it "proves" is that she has absolutely no such plans whatsoever. In fact, she disowns the damned "plans." UPDATE

Man, seems some of you dig the drama more than I do lately...

Look, I am not a literalist. Read it carefully: I DID NOT SAY THERE WAS NO GENDER BIAS. I said she did not LOSE because of gender bias. I never said there is no such thing as sexism in American politics or the media, for chrissakes. I never said sexism didn't play a role in the primary or even in the Obama campaign. Hell, for all I know the Obama campaign played it up -- I don't happen to believe so, but I'll defer to your claims on it and give you the benefit of the doubt on that argument.

But I stand by my original statement: Hillary Clinton did not lost the primary because of gender bias.

So stick that in your indignant pipes and smoke it.

And if you're so outraged that this somehow got on MyDD's Recommended List...

Unrecommend it, for heaven's sake. I expected it to sink into oblivion overnight.

It doesn't take someone with keen foresight to know what would happen if the Clinton camp tried to nominate Hilary at the Convention: she'd lose by even more delegates than she had in June. The humiliation would be disastrous and her political career would be effectively crushed.

There is no way in hell she would allow this to happen, let alone mastermind it. I don't know who's driving this rumour bus, but it sure as hell isn't Hilary Clinton. It's probably the small, deeply disturbed cadre of Clintonites who tried to disrupt the rules committee, led by that racist woman who set YouTube afire with her "inexperienced black man" comments. Who knows. But isn't it just predictable as hell that the corporate televised media is running with it?

After all, there aren't any REAL stories to cover. No wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, no political corruption in the Bush Administration or Congress, no pathetic capitulation by the Democrats on impeachment, no challenges to Democrats like Pelosi by independents like Sheehan because of Pelosi's refusal to consider impeachment of Bush because of criminal offenses...

Nope. Nothing to see here, let's cover a non-story in the election. Let's not even cover a REAL story in the election, like John McCain's myriad of ties to big oil and lobbyists. Maybe tomorrow we can do a story about Obama's email address book and how many movie stars are in it...

On another note: I am so fucking sick of the "Hilary was victimised by gender bias" meme I could puke. It's such a crock of SHIT. She ran against a BLACK MAN, for chrissakes. If there were ever a time Hilary Clinton had an ADVANTAGE as a woman, THIS WAS IT. If there were EVER a time it was PURE ADVANTAGE TO BE A WOMAN, THIS WAS IT.

Sorry, it's the goddamned truth. She did NOT lose because of gender fucking bias. After February, she lost because Barack Obama was the better candidate. Period, the end, no more discussion to be had. After February, she was toast. Stick a fork in her (and that is NOT a goddamned misogynist violence against women expression get over it), she'd have been better off quitting, end of story. Gender bias my firm, heart shaped rounded ass. BARACK OBAMA WAS THE BETTER CANDIDATE, THE BETTER CAMPAIGNER, THE BETTER FUNDRAISER, THE BETTER DEMOCRAT.

GET USED TO IT.

Gender Bias. Jesus Christ. That anyone can say that with a straight face... against THIS man? Against a man who gets called NIGGER every fucking day in a hundred different ways on a thousand different websites... Holy fucking shit... how can you look yourselves in the mirror. I am embarrassed to have a fucking uterus.

Tags: Clinton, Convention (all tags)

Permalink :: 211 Comments :: Post a Comment

Get. Real. (1.84 / 19)

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:16:11 PM EST

Jasus, Mary and Joseph (2.00 / 2)

Maryscott O'connor, I'm going to have to assign ye a hoondred hail Marys after this outburst!

by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:25:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get. Real. (none / 0)

I know better to continue to read the rest of this diary. This person cusses like a drunken sailor. Hillary Clinton and profanity plus profanity minus George W. Bush/John McCain equals something that I care not to delve into.

Looking forward to a less divisive diary!!!

by Check077 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:27:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, yes. (none / 0)

It's the "cussing" that's the problem.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:29:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get. Real. (none / 0)

Well, if the cussing was directed at Republicans, I could understand that, but this is only stoking the flames.

by Check077 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:31:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not constructive. (none / 0)

Not rec'd. I agree with you that she won't disrupt the convention and I agree that Obama won primarily for having run the better campaign, but calling him a better democrat than her, etc is not constructive and unsupported.

Hope you feel better, since catharsis is a good use for blogs, but I also hope you fall off the rec list sooner than later.

M. It's like W, but flipflopped.

by warmwaterpenguin on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:31:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree (2.00 / 8)

I think Hillary's in a tough position.

I don't think she's angling, milking, sabotaging or anything of the sort -- I just think she's in a position where she knows she has a volatile situation on her hands.

She's knows full well that she still has a strong core of angry partisans that aren't ready to line up behind the nominee, and her scolding them is hardly going to help the situation.

She can't exactly start lecturing a strong group of supporters demanding they fall in line behind Obama, she's gotta inch 'em into the camp.

There probably will come a point where she'll probably need to make it known/essentially say "Look - I appreciate the support, but let's be serious -- we'll be much better off with a President Obama than a President McCain. So knock off the shit and quit acting a fool".

But the first week of August is not the time to do that.

If, after the convention, it needs to be said - I'm sure she'll say it... right now, I suspect she knows that her role is that of peacemaker, not enforcer.

by zonk on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:31:41 PM EST

If it has to be said after the convention, (2.00 / 1)

then we will have already lost the election. Which may be a bad thing, depending on who you want to see win. (I'm rooting for Obama.)

We have been consistently ahead of McCain in the polls for weeks and months. It would be sad to throw away such an opportunity.

by Dumbo on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If it has to be said after the convention, (2.00 / 2)

I don't expect her to do it -- if it needs to be done after the convention -- in a press conference, I expect it would be something not unlike the iPhone type footage from a small gathering like this one... and hey - maybe it leaks out... but even then, it wouldn't be the big deal the media makes it out to be.

In a way, I think it's not unlike Howard Dean in 2004 -- the difference, of course, being that Dean certainly tallied a lot less votes and delegates after the primary season began than has Hillary -- but there were an awful lot of us very loud, very angry, very "WHAT IN @$#@!$@# IS THE PARTY DOING?!?!?!" type Deaniacs right up until the convention (I was one of them). Ultimately, though, the overwhelming majority of the Democratic party got behind Kerry.

I think the same is true now - there are still a good number -- and I say this without trying to be insulting, but I think it's true -- electorally insignificant number of vocal Clinton supporters that are still looking to make waves.

Hence, I see the Clinton/Clinton supporter issue as a PR problem for Obama, not necessarily an electoral problem... However - PR problems can become electoral problems if they become so noisy and so oft-reported as to drive the candidate off message and become an integrated part of the media narrative.

THAT's what I honestly do think Hillary wants to fend off right now...

by zonk on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:27:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree (none / 0)

You had me until you stated that she should say, "So knock off the shit and quit acting a fool".

I do not believe Hilary will ever go that far with her supporters. A house can not stand on shaky foundation. They are her supporters--you know the ones holding her up. She'll have to find a better way than that.

Kudos for seeing 98.5% of the situation correctly. Moreover, I'll even mojo you for this one.

by Check077 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:39:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BREAKING!!!!! (2.00 / 8)

CAPITAL LETTERS, OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE AND CONTENT FORCE HRC OUT OF HIDING. SHE RODE INTO THE CONVENTION ON HER ELECTRIC UNICORN AND TOLD THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD:

PEOPLE - GENDER BIAS IN THE MEDIA DOES NOT EXIST. I KNOW THAT YOU THINK IT DOES. BUT YOU ARE FUCKING WRONG!!

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:33:01 PM EST

I<BR>'m missing something here, I think (1.00 / 1)

What are you saying?

(Not being facetious, I'm just not getting it.)

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:36:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

my snark missed? (2.00 / 10)

well since you used the latest fake media controversy and a clearly inflammatory title to your diary to rehash primary wounds and educate us on how there was no sexism in the primary but remind us how there is lots of racism - i think my comment was pretty kind.

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:00:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, okay. (none / 0)

Clearly I'm in the wrong place.

Enjoy your evening.

Dumbo, hope to see you elsewhere; the wayback machine is not my cuppa.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:03:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, I think you are... (2.00 / 12)

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I wonder now if you are. I'm sorry, Mary Scott, but all I see in your diary is pure vitriol. Maybe this is something that My Left Wing folks like, but here at MyDD we already have more than enough flaming provocateurs.

If you don't want to acknowledge the ugly sexism Hillary Clinton endured, go ahead... Just don't give us s**t and tell us we're smelling roses.

Thanks.

No way, no how, no McCain! :-)

by atdleft on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:16:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

woot woot! (2.00 / 6)

i think this is the first time i have ever i have seen atd pissed - its sexy!

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:18:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Gosh, ATDleft, are you telling her to leave MyDD? (none / 0)

by Dumbo on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:23:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not a command... (2.00 / 4)

Just a "helpful hint". MSOC's ugly "rants" are just as divisive and anti-Democratic as "PUMA" McTrolls. And hey, the "PUMAs" know how to keep their more inflammatory trash in their echo chambers... Why can't MSOC?

No way, no how, no McCain! :-)

by atdleft on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:30:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Can you clarify what is most divisive about it? (2.00 / 5)

The claim that Hillary did not lose the election because of bias? I think that's a valid position and shouldn't be that terribly controversial. In fact, we wouldn't have to discuss this at all if the issue wasn't being raised on a daily basis by those who feel that Obama won unfairly. As an Obama supporter, I find that divisive. Yet at those times when we defend Obama or respond in kind, you consider that divisive.

I have thought more than once about writing a diary about the Clintons and race in this past election, but then, why bother, because the primary season is over? The only thing is, that issue keeps being raised by some of the same people complaining about this diary. I've been complaining about that, to little effect, other than a few diaries praising freedom of speech for anti-Obama dissidents.

by Dumbo on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:54:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BREAKING!!!!! (2.00 / 2)

Mojo'd for "electric unicorn."

No way. No how. No McCain.

by freedom78 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:01:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're kidding, right? (2.00 / 2)

You only visit left wing sites?

Because I go to a LOT of sites. Including YouTube. And you can't click two sites without tripping over the word "nigger" and Obama. It's nauseating.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:35:15 PM EST

I am a mother. (2.00 / 1)

A stay at home mother, as it happens.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:55:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, sweetheart. (2.00 / 1)

Step off.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:02:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for your support. (2.00 / 2)

Catfish are bottom dwellers, no? Essentially, they subsist on garbage . You live up to your namesake, as always.

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:39:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for your support. (2.00 / 3)

Hmmmm. Muy interesting. Is "Gatopescado" catfish2 in Spanish drag?

by mikeinsf on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:30:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for your support. (2.00 / 2)

You think? Lulz!

gatopescado2.

Trollin with a latin flavor.

Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!

by spacemanspiff on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:32:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Admins, he's back (2.00 / 2)

Didn't take long after last night's debacle, lol.

by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:52:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for your support. (none / 0)

While I appreciate the gesture, catfish2, if you really wanted to send a big "fuck you" to the admins, you should have registered "catfish3."

by username on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 07:37:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, sweetheart. (2.00 / 0)

that's rude.

by MKyleM on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 10:28:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

what? (2.00 / 1)

I am no more or less "invisible" than I WISH to be. So I would respectfully disagree with your statement if I had any idea what it meant.

by DawnG on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:13:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Certain sectors see sexism (2.00 / 7)

And why do you suppose that is?

One could argue that the ability of, say, one person to see more sexism than another is not an indication that there is more sexism to see, but that the witness can not see anything outside the context of gender.

I do not spend my life fretting over whether I am treated or viewed equally from men. In fact I don't spend my life fretting over what others think of me period. It is enough for me to know I am equal. It is enough for me to know I am. I don't care what anyone else thinks.

You'd be surprised how equal the world seems when you keep a good frame of mind. You should try it some time.

by DawnG on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:24:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Certain sectors see sexism (2.00 / 4)

THAT'S Feminism. Not victimization.

Well said.

John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.

by recusancy on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:33:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good. You are special. (2.00 / 4)

Seriously, I don't know how much more of you running around telling women what to do I can stand.

Go back to Alegre's corner where you can fret about how Barack Obama stood up Bill Clinton at Applebees or whatever the hell that was all about.

I have that readiness.

by Jess81 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:47:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then maybe you're not seeing it (2.00 / 1)

lord knows i have done it so i know how it goes, but seriously you simply cannot psychoanalyze someone by their posts. it only makes you look foolish. i don't agree with her but this type of belittling as opposed to addressing her honestly really reflects on you not her.

by zerosumgame on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:15:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am a mother. (none / 0)

You should probably TARGET YOUR RANTING at obvious Republicans--not possible Democratic votes.

by Check077 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lots of rant and rage in your diary (2.00 / 4)

No Hillary will not cause trouble. The Clintons are damanding respect and rightfully so IMO. The respect they want comes in playing a major role at the convention; they forced Obama's hand. Good for them.

It's John Edwards that will most likely be the one that causes a distraction in the near future.

by soyousay on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:36:38 PM EST

Well, unfortunately I think you're right (none / 0)

about Edwards...

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:37:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, unfortunately I think you're right (2.00 / 1)

I just heard Leno make another Edwards joke this evening. The scandal is not going away. The media is making the situation worse by their silence; they're prolonging it.

by soyousay on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:44:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elizabeth is well-liked both side of aisle (2.00 / 1)

Actually, the media has become part of the joke. Leno mentioned the non-reporting.

by soyousay on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:42:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Will Not Disrupt the Conv (1.77 / 9)

I am a woman and I believe Hillary was the victim of terrible misogyny from the media and Obama and his campaign.

I heard nobody telling BO to get out of the race, even though it was virtually tied. HRC even ended up winning though...as a democratic voter I do consider the winner of the popular vote the actual winner.

I am not sorry I have a uterus!!! Peace!

hee hee...

by FireLight on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:38:50 PM EST

"virtually tied" (1.50 / 2)

That was the product of hype. She never stood a chance after February. It was over.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:43:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Beat me to it. (1.66 / 3)

Virtually tied, if that means "mathematically certain to lose."

by Dumbo on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:49:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "virtually tied" (2.00 / 2)

Neither of them have enough pledged delegates to win.

Hillary won the popular vote.

"Never stood a chance"....?

P.S. I am amazed at my wonderous uterus! If I were a man, I would be amazed at my wonderous anatomy also! It took millions of years for such wonder to be! Wooooohooooooo!!! : )

by FireLight on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:55:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "virtually tied" (2.00 / 1)

Uhh, do your parents know you're up so late, posting on political blogs?

Also, can we see you permit for the excessive use of exclamation marks?

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:51:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

O Lord (2.00 / 1)

Here we go again. How long will you folks perpetuate this story. Do you really believe that there wasn't a soul in Michigan that wouldn't have voted for Obama? And if she got 55% there vs. uncommitted, might that not mean that some of those votes would have gone to him?

Stop it.

by mikeinsf on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:34:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: O Lord (2.00 / 2)

Um...Mike...

Did you miss the part at the Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting where Obama got ALL of the "Uncommitted" votes, even though some of them were certainly for other candidates who also took their names off the ballot? Did you then also miss the part where the Rules and Bylaws Committee gave Obama some of Hillary Clinton's earned delegates....took them away from her and gave them to Obama?

You must have been out of the room on a bathroom break or tying your shoe when that happened.

by Radiowalla on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:30:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: O Lord (2.00 / 1)

OK.

By the way, when does the primary rehash end? 2016?

by mikeinsf on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:19:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

that's so funny! (2.00 / 2)

i was going to ask you the same thing after your previous comment.

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:22:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: that's so funny! (none / 0)

You mean in reply to the "popular vote" thing. I wasn't the first on this thread to bleat on about "popular vote", CG. Read upthread.

by mikeinsf on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:46:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe it will end (2.00 / 0)

when people start stating facts instead of suppositions.

Pardon me for correcting the record.

by Radiowalla on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:56:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I Said "OK" (2.00 / 0)

No. I grant you that you might be right. I forgot to take into account the ruling that granted Obama the uncommitted delegates, SO I'm conceding you might be right. OK?

I don't have time to see what the totals are. Do you have the a popular vote count that includes the MI uncommitted to Obama? I'd sincerely like to see that.

by mikeinsf on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:10:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe it will end (2.00 / 1)

I just took the time. Seems you're right. Now what?

by mikeinsf on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:26:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe it will end (none / 0)

Thank you for checking, Mike. That was cool.

Now what? Well, put her name in nomination and allow her delegates to represent her voters. Everyone will cheer. Then the next vote will be held and it will be unanimous for Obama. Everyone will cheer. The crowd will roar and the party will be united and live happily ever after.

What's so bad about that?

by Radiowalla on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:56:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe it will end (2.00 / 1)

I don't really have a problem with the roll call if it doesn't undermine Obama vs. McCain.

by mikeinsf on Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 03:21:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fine, let's see your "facts" (2.00 / 1)

Show us how she won the popular vote without making absurd assumptions and suppositions, such as not counting any votes for him from MI, or discounting all states that held caucuses.

It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel

by Sumo Vita on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um.. "Radiowalla".. (2.00 / 1)

Did you miss the part at the Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting where Obama got ALL of the "Uncommitted" votes, even though some of them were certainly for other candidates who also took their names off the ballot?

Did you miss the part about the MI primary being INVALIDATED?

There were no "earned delegates" taken from Hillary, because there were no "earned delegates", period.

That primary was NULL and VOID and neither candidate should have been awarded any kind of delegate advantage coming out of it. That HRC was, was the result of the insane frothing-at-the-mouth hysterics and distortions that those like you continue to perpetuate with abandon.

Stop it!

It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel

by Sumo Vita on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How were the votes in Michigan 'hard earned'? (none / 0)

Are you saying she campaigned there or something?

John McCain, maverick

by lojasmo on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 06:14:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They got the same in popular vote (none / 0)

Do you have a link for that?

I have that readiness.

by Jess81 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:03:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ummm... (2.00 / 4)

...actually I did hear people calling for Obama to step aside.

So...I don't know what you're talking about. It wasn't as much as people saying Clinton should step aside but, he was ahead at the time.

by DawnG on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:16:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Will Not Disrupt the Conv (2.00 / 4)

Well, she didn't win the popular vote.. unless, of course, you count invalid elections... so, if you count that, you should also include my office straw poll in your tallies, since that poll is about as valid as the MI primary...

After February, she has no mathematical chance to win... period. She wanted to stay in, fine... but the fact that she lost shouldn't have surprised anyone... there was no way she could the numbers she needed.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:46:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You may be a woman but (2.00 / 1)

Does that make the highlighted part of your statement any truer?

I believe Hillary was the victim of terrible misogyny from the media and Obama and his campaign.

True feminists have a sense of politics, and know who their friends are.

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:34:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Will Not Disrupt the Conv (2.00 / 3)

I heard nobody telling BO to get out of the race, even though it was virtually tied.

Well, first of all that isn't true, but even if it were, call me crazy but I think that would have to do with the fact that Hillary Clinton trailed for the entire race, and not because she has a uterus. I know, it's a nutty theory.

Nevertheless, people did call for him to drop out. You didn't notice all the calls for Barack Obama to step aside and be Hillary Clinton's running mate, and how his failure to do so showed just how arrogant he was?

I have that readiness.

by Jess81 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:07:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Will Not Disrupt the Conv (none / 0)

And by the way, this diary is no good.

Now we've got people who really ought to know better rec'ing this horseshit: "I am a woman and I believe Hillary was the victim of terrible misogyny from the media and Obama and his campaign."

Here we go again. Next, I suggest we debate Bill Clinton's racism.

I have that readiness.

by Jess81 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:22:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Will Not Disrupt the Conv (2.00 / 1)

You know?

I think a pundit actually nailed it last night on one of the dog and pony cablez teeveez (Chuck Todd, I believe).

He basically said that the real core reason for a lot of this was that the media falsely portrayed the race as "virtually tied", when in fact, it wasn't after late February.

Was it close - much closer than usual?

Sure...

But the media wanted a horserace, and frankly -- the Clinton campaign wanted to keep the "virtually tied" narrative going because it was in their best interests.

However, if we objectively look back -- Obama built a huge lead in February, and from that point -- simply had to hang onto it.

Yes, the magic number is/was 2025/211?/whatever... but the Democratic nomination, since the nominating restructuring in the early 70s, has always been about winning pledged delegates.

All the other chatter was salon navel gazing -- the super-delegates were never going to over-turn the pledged delegate totals, for either candidate.

If you want to get down to it - Obama probably won this race not because of misogyny, not because of the media -- but simply because the Obama braintrust (Plouffe, Axelrod, et al) approached the race from a cold, calculating, pledged delegate accumulation tract, while Penn, Wolfson, et al approached it a sort of "voice vote/general assent" contest.

The Obama team knew they were never going to win the nomination by general assent - if they were to win, it would be a matter of eeking out a pledged delegate win.

The Clinton team simply followed a different strategy - and that's not to say it was a bad strategy -- hell, it's worked every cycle since the restructuring.

by zonk on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 08:38:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Diary recommended... (1.83 / 6)

Like almost all MaryScott diaries I have read over the past five or so years. I'm glad the streak survives yet again. :)

I didn't know there were rumors she would try for a putsch. That's silly on the face of it. But I don't think the Clintons' motives are benign as far as helping Obama. We'll see at the convention. It would appear from everything that we have seen, so far, though, that they intend to try to steal the spotlight yet again, and if that hurts Obama, well, they never thought he was a good enough candidate anyway.

by Dumbo on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:41:23 PM EST

I rarely inquire about these things... (2.00 / 2)

But I'm getting tr-ed by Lakrosse again, and for an innocuous comment. Is there a reason for this? I've never TR-ed you, Lakrosse, or anybody else on this site in the many years I've been here.

by Dumbo on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:18:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I rarely inquire about these things... (2.00 / 2)

A badge of honor, my dear Dumbo!

by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:32:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I rarely inquire about these things... (2.00 / 3)

You've been TR'd by the sockpuppet of a banned master of asshattery.

Consider it a both a compliment, and a sign that you're doing right.

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:56:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I rarely inquire about these things... (2.00 / 3)

Lakrosse is a habitual TR-abuser. Most of us are used to it by now. Why don't they just get rid of the 1-rating already?

by Skaje on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:58:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

TR abuse (2.00 / 1)

comes from the same mentality that keys cars.

It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel

by Sumo Vita on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:32:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For sure (2.00 / 7)

I don't think for a moment that Hillary will try to disrupt the convention, but I do think that diaries like this one have the express purpose of attacking the unity that the democratic party is trying so hard to achieve.

The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. -- Thomas Jefferson

by pollbuster on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:42:27 PM EST

Oh the sarcasm... (none / 0)

by Dumbo on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:50:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Funny... (2.00 / 1)

I thought that unity was doing quite well until the Hillary supporters just had to"be heard."

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:57:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

al you need to know (2.00 / 3)

It is doing quite well, despite some lame efforts to disrupt it.

The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. -- Thomas Jefferson

by pollbuster on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:07:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry, MSOC... (2.00 / 3)

But we're NOT mute! We're all Democrats, and we're going nowhere. And while we will support Obama as the party's nominee, we won't do so blindly & we won't forget the one person who's fought hard for our voices to be heard.

Our voices will be heard, and we won't forget what Hillary has done for us.

No way, no how, no McCain! :-)

by atdleft on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:24:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If it is about Honoring Clinton... (2.00 / 1)

...then I would say it's all good.

But if it's about feeding your own pride...

I really think Clinton supporters need to understand where this comes from becuase it could be very positive or very negative depending on the motivation behind it.

by DawnG on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:18:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry, MSOC... (2.00 / 1)

What I don't understand is the continued bitterness from Clinton supporters. She lost. Move on. She may well be our nominee at some point in the future but that becomes less possible the longer this "respect me" "give me my do" memme continues.

by temptxan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:03:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry, MSOC... (none / 0)

Oh, so now you guys have abandoned "Hillary speaks for me" ?

by venician on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There's always niggerobama.com (1.00 / 5)

http://www.niggerobama.com/YaBB.pl

by Dumbo on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:43:46 PM EST

Re: There's always niggerobama.com (2.00 / 1)

Case in point -- and there are a myriad others.

Disgusting, sad, embarrassing for us all, but true.

Good to see you DUmbo. COme over to MLW sometime and see me, big boy.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:44:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay, I will... (2.00 / 2)

but they're always mean to me!

I'm on a classical music posting binge. I'll bring some youtube links.

by Dumbo on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:54:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmm (2.00 / 6)

After February, she was toast. Stick a fork in her (...), she'd have been better off quitting, end of story.

End of story, eh? I'm not sure what it is you are smoking, but I'd like to try a little when you are done.

When she came back and won Ohio, Texas, RI, Pennsylvania, Indiana, West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico and S. Dakota after losing eleven straight...that's how she became the Hillary of legend. That's when she became a great candidate. She has the respect and power she has today because of the race she ran, especially from Mar-June. I mean geez...it was an amazing comeback. Give her some credit where it's due.

So yeah, you couldn't be more wrong there, Mary.

allprogressives.com

by Scan on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:55:55 PM EST

What is with this (1.00 / 10)

"credit where it's due" bullshit?

She LOST.

And she kept losing.

And just where is all this SUPPORT she promised to give Obama? The woman has been invisible.

Bill Clinton practically said Obama was qualified because he has lungs and a pancreas. Gee, Bill, thanks for the rousing endorsement, pal.

They're being despicable.

Credit where it's due, my ass.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:59:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"The woman has been invisible"? (2.00 / 5)

Here she is being invisible in Unity NH:

Also, she's going to be making another invisible appearance tomorrow in Nevada in support of Obama. Everyone will see it and enjoy it except for Mary. Too bad...it should be great. :(

allprogressives.com

by Scan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:11:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "The woman has been invisible"? (none / 0)

I believe MSOC's point was that the Unity event was at the end of June; the next event is early to mid August. There was a month in the middle where she did go under the radar.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing (allowing Obama to get exposure on his own) or a bad thing (allowing PUMAs to gain a bunker mentality that even Hiroo Onoda thinks is a bit extreme, with media coverage to boot).

by TCQuad on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She is supporting him, and she won the (none / 0)

Maybe Obama shouldn't have smeared Bill as a racist. Maybe Obama should have kept those dinner plans with Bill they made at the end of the primary. Maybe he brought this on himself.

Bill? Hillary? Is that you?

by Dumbo on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:32:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She is supporting him, and she won the second (none / 0)

No, she won the majority of the last 35% of primaries. 75% of the primaries were over in February.... she also had a lot of help from Rush Limbaugh. She was the Republicans' favorite candidate.

She had a great fourth quarter... so do many times when they are behind. It still didn't change the final score.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:48:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She is supporting him, and she won the second (none / 0)

Tuypo... I meant 25%

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:48:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bitter much? (2.00 / 5)

Why all the hate? For god sakes she's a Democrat and shares the same values as Barack. CHILL

by SocialDem on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:55:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

16 is half of 57 now? (2.00 / 1)

Who knew?

by Angry White Democrat on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:52:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And as for this vanted (2.00 / 2)

"party unity..."

Many people on site are striking me as nothing so much as a bunch of people who simply cannot let go of their love for a losing candidate.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:01:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And you are striking me (2.00 / 2)

as some sort of Troll just here to stir up trouble. So kindly shut up and stop bashing a good Democrat. What is your problem?

by SocialDem on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:57:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What is with you today? (none / 0)

Where were those people in February?

Seriously... all the "passionate support" for Hillary.... except where were all those people for Hillary when she needed them? in February?

Apparently, the "passionate support" for her is seasonal.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:57:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm (2.00 / 4)

It was an amazing comeback, but she still had no chance of winning. That's proportional delegates for ya. Lose small states by a ton and win big ones by a little = lose.

by ProgressiveDL on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:38:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm (2.00 / 2)

Eh, no offense, but most (if not all) of those were "come from ahead" victories, no?

Nuttin' for nuttin', but let's all avoid being entirely revisionist, shall we?

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:00:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Um... (none / 0)

Clinton lost Texas.

by Khun David on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:19:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um...NO she didn't. (2.00 / 1)

She might have come out of the caucus' w/ less delegates that Obama, but she won the Texas ballot Primary. There were two parts to the Texas Primary, ballot & caucus.

Nice try.

He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin

by TxDem08 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:59:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um... (2.00 / 1)

Hillary won the Texas primary.

allprogressives.com

by Scan on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:21:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Um..... (2.00 / 0)

Actually, she didn't lose Texas. She won the popular vote, but lost the caucuses disproportionately. But, I'd suggest we not dredge up all that Texas stuff.

by zenful6219 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm (2.00 / 2)

This was not a comeback, she was projected to win all of these states well in advance, based on demographics. From February through the end of the race, both Obama and Clinton each won their expected races.
This is why anyone consistently doing the math thought she had no chance. Because even factoring in her expected wins in these states, it wasn't enough to overcome his delegate lead. There were no "game-changers" where one candidate upset the other in a state they weren't expected to win.

by bottl4 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 09:58:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this snark? (2.00 / 5)

Serious question.

Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008

by zcflint05 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:05:19 AM EST

I was asking myself... (2.00 / 3)

The same question. ;-)

No way, no how, no McCain! :-)

by atdleft on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:19:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was asking myself... (2.00 / 4)

this diary is bullshit and you know Im an Obama supporter. actualy I am considering emailing admin, it a freakin disgrace by some no quarter or repug trash puppet stiring up crap. notice lots of n bombs and blatant f bombs about other dems. this crap should be deleted

by KLRinLA on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:19:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was asking myself... (2.00 / 1)

Um, actually MSCOTT is not a troll. She's a pretty well known blogger in the left sphere of the net. Perhaps you should do some research before preaching.

by zep93 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was asking myself... (2.00 / 1)

Don't really give a crap fellow poster, that diary is red meat flame bait and at this juncture, it's trollish. So history in the left or not, it's a stupid fucking diary

by KLRinLA on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 03:26:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This diary makes an excellent argument for why... (2.00 / 2)

Hillary shouldn't put her name in nomination and instead instruct her delegates to support Obama unanimously.

It would be a disaster for her as well as Obama if a handful of schemers disrupted the convention -- even against her wishes.

by Glaurung on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:20:53 AM EST

You do know that Jake Tapper (none / 0)

is a know GOP operative?

I've not heard Obama say there shouldn't be a roll call vote. Please cite where he or anyone in his campaign has said that there should not be a "show vote" as has occured in the other conventions.

The point is, by creating an environment for intrigue and possibly mayhem at the convention, Hillary risks damaging her party and country, as well as her own self serving interests.

by Glaurung on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:33:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You obviously "dunno" anything (none / 0)

about Obama or his campaign trying to deny a vote at the convention either.

by Glaurung on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:42:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, there are certainly some stupid people (2.00 / 1)

trying say that he will try to keep the delegates from voting.

by Glaurung on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:44:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are just about 3.5 months late here.. (2.00 / 5)

I'm sure you'd have found a great receptive audience for this diary then. Right now we are all fatigued and really don't have any energy to spare for a primary rehash..

I understand you don't like HRC. You surely don't have to. I just wanted to send you good wishes. Have a good night full of good thoughts.

by louisprandtl on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:24:27 AM EST

Who called Hillary the b-word? (1.50 / 2)

I never saw that except at a McBush event -- and he's now one of Hillary's most ardent supporters.

by Glaurung on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 12:24:44 AM EST

Don't forget your McCredits! (2.00 / 4)

I'm sure they'll give them to you for smearing Obama just as well as for promoting McBush.

by Glaurung on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:39:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't forget your McCredits! (2.00 / 4)

gato-pescado
cat - fish

Different language, same trollicious taste!

Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!